Hebrews 12:6 (KJV) 6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
The word chastisement is sometimes misunderstood because of wrong representation of God or simply wrong understanding of His heart. This is why I called my ministry “Real heart fellowship,” because if we have the real heart of God understood – then all the scriptures will fall into place.
Vrs 6 of Heb 12 is not the start of the teaching, but in vrs one. The author is trying to compare our fight against sin to the unpleasantness of the discipline we receive from our earthly father. He is in no way telling us of bad things coming our way from God to train us and “whip” us.
When were resisting temptation it is a struggle and often a full on fight. But this fight is in our minds not by way of fleshly wrestling. Our spirits are the born-again “new creation” ones and our minds are the one that is in need of correction to line up with the will or word of God. So what were seeing is that we are in need of Rom 12:1-2 of having our minds renewed and no longer conformed to this world. Not always is this renewal fun, nor is it pleasant, but it dose bring forth fruit if we yield to its correction.
Heb 12:8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
Sons of God resist temptation, or should be trying. But this trying is not found in our strength but in the fact that we are dead and our life is hidden with Christ in God. We were crucified with Him and raised with Him. This is the grace message- for it’s all done by grace through faith. Sons take the word of their Father and train themselves to be true to the word…
Jesus was perfected by the things that He suffered.
Heb 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
Of course Jesus suffered but not by being sickened or whipped from His Father, but by persecution for the words sake. And you too as a Christian will be persecuted for the words sake.
Jesus did take sickness and diseases on Himself on the cross- but were talking now about His earthly day-to-day walk. He was the perfect sacrifice and became our sin, sickness and disease from the whipping post to the thrown of God where He sat down and we are seated with Him in His victory. 2Cor 5:21.
He was tempted in all ways, yet without sin Heb 4:15. In fact He resisted to the point of shedding His blood. He even went to the point of asking His Father in the garden if this cup can pass by Him –“but not my will but yours be done”.
How does our Father make us perfect? First we are made perfect in Christ perfection. Then in our souls were perfected by both the word and the Spirit and our yielding to them. 2 Tim. 3:16-17 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
So we can see that we are made perfect in our renewing of our minds without tragedy or sicknesses or diseases. It is in-fact the word that corrects us. And our yielding to it works out this salvation we already have inwardly. The image of Christ begins to manifest in our thinking and our wills. 2Cor 5:21
Hebrews 12, the author is establishing the context in the first few verses. 'Let us run with patience,' 'lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.' 'Ye have not yet resisted (temptation) unto blood (as Jesus did in the Garden), striving against sin.'
Heb 12:3 For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.
4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.
Therefore, the resisting of temptation and the striving against sin is the context of the chapter. Even Jesus found it unpleasant to resist, and strived to the point of shedding blood. Context is something we must always strive to stay in when reading the word.
Then he compares the chastening of the Father to our earthly fathers correction.
Were to be subject to the Father of spirits, hence the resisting of the temptation previously mentioned.
Sickness has never perfected anyone and the Fathers hand to reach out and spank the flesh is not the new covenant way. Jesus has paid for all the sins of the world. We just need correction by renewal of our minds to line up with who we are in the spirit.
What perfects the saints?
Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints,
John 15:1-3, Jesus speaks of 'purging' or pruning the branches that they might bear more fruit. Some have taken this to refer to sickness and calamity as well. However, in verse 3 Jesus says: "Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you." The word 'clean' is the same Greek word translated 'purgeth' in the prior verse, and shows us that Jesus cleanses us, or purges us, by His Word, not by sickness, calamity or tragedy.
To be chastened of the Lord is when you make the decision to allow the word to be preeminent in your thinking. To cast down imaginations not of God, to yield to His mind that is found in His word. Through this you become perfected in your thinking and will.
Heb 13:22 And I beseech you, brethren, suffer the word of exhortation: for I have written a letter unto you in few words.
~David
SDA
Otherwise known as Seventh Day Adventist
This particular group of so-called Christians has their roots in Jewish traditions as well as some Jehovah Witness teachings. They stem from following a false prophet named Ellen White. When one comes into contact with an SDA they will tell you all about SDA and back their teachings up with sincerity. But they are misled and sincerely wrong when it comes to the teachings of the bible.
They don’t talk Jesus but they talk SDA and their church group. They are willing as most cults to put aside the bible teachings and delve straight into their other book-written by their false prophet Ellen White. If you want to talk to them about scripture you will soon hear that they are rooted in Moses and not Christ.
Though they aren’t from the linage of Moses themselves and are held in bondage to the Laws of Moses not knowing that the Laws of Christ -which are love the Lord thy God with all your heart, mind, soul and strength and love they neighbor as thyself.
They have become very stiff necked and put aside the work of Christ by magnifying their own works as a means to heavenly gain, salvation also intended. Although the word strictly says that those who are under the law are under a curse, they still can’t see the truth having their understanding darkened by their returning to their self-righteousness.
All the scripture you give them are to no avail because they are happy with religion. Religion gives you a false since of pride where you can say I kept these rules I must be okay and you didn’t so your wrong. But there is a surety that they are very miserable inside because that is what religion produces in the soul as it sours the spirit.
They can no longer talk about the true church of Christ’s redemption for they are sectarian and have taken their own place as being the true church. This delusion is one they are happy to grab onto as they are led by lying tenants passed down from others in worse bondage. As other cults they get together and pat themselves on the back for all their keepings of law and boast in themselves and not Christ finished works. The word say clearly not to haggle over days, feasts, and foods and reveals that in the last days people will tell us not to eat meats which are given by God to be received with thanksgiving.
I could give a full treaty on all the scriptures to ward off their false teachings but you will believe what you want anyways… So search the scriptures and see how Galatians, Hebrews and Romans destroy every teaching they have as well as all religions of this world system. Read the word in context chapter by chapter and see how free Christ has made us. For He fulfilled all the law and we are in Him. So we fulfilled every law and am now Holy, Righteous and without reproach in Christ. 100% accepted, 100% loved, 100% as Holy as Jesus for I enjoy His righteousness not mine born of the works of flesh.
You see it’s not what goes into the mouth that defiles but what comes out!
And I acknowledge every good thing in me in Christ, Not in myself. Not knowing that all was fulfilled in Christ the SDA would say if you don’t teach the law your less or the least in the kingdom-see they are still in the old testament and can’t see that Christ was the total fulfillment of the law (Old Test) and now He brings the law of love and the law of faith and the law of the Spirit of life IN Christ Jesus- which has freed us from the law of sin and death. The SDA’s have blinders on as they read Moses and it has a faded glory, a past glory that is far surpassed by the real glory of the works of the cross. As you read this your receiving truth if you are Christ’s and rejecting truth unable to see what is so blatant in this message. I preach Christ and Him crucified, resurrected and seated at the right hand of the Father. And in fact we too are right there with Him in all these things. Free to now serve in liberty and power. For we know the scriptures and the power of God… Jesus! The word made flesh.
2nd Corinthians 11:13-15 God warns us:
'For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.'
So Satan makes sure that heresy always appears like orthodoxy. Wolves put on sheep's clothing, as Jesus said about false prophets in Matthew 7:15. And the worst heresies in the world pretend that their doctrine is founded on Scripture and they give Scripture references, though the Scriptures themselves do not always teach what the false doctrines try to teach.
Seventh-Day Adventism began in the mid-nineteenth century, when a Baptist preacher, who later repented of his folly, predicted that Jesus Christ would return in 1844. Miller had over 10,000 followers, many of whom sold their homes, gave away all their earthly possessions, quit their jobs, and waited eagerly for the Lord's return--But the Lord didn't return in 1844! In came Ellen G. White to save the day, claiming that instead of returning to the earth, Jesus entered into the Holy of Holies in Heaven to finish His work of atonement. She termed this event the "Investigative Judgment," a doctrine not found anywhere in the Word of God.
"Mrs. White, the 'prophetess' of Seventh-Day Adventists, is quoted in their book, Answers to Objections, by Francis D. Nichol (published by the Review and Herald Publishing Association, Washington, D.C.), page 402, as saying:
'Those who accept the Saviour, however sincere their conversion, should never be taught to say or to feel that they are saved. This is misleading.
Bible says~1st John 5:13 states, "These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may KNOW that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God." We read in Romans 4:3, 5 that Abraham simply BELIEVED God, and was saved WITHOUT any works, "For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness ... But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness."
Francis D. Nichol, in his book, Answers to Objections, states on page 243...
"Here is our position: Only those will be saved who, having been redeemed by the grace of Christ, walk in obedience to all the light that God sheds on their way."
This is the official Adventist position! The above doctrine means that all SDA members must comply with ALL of the requirements of the SDA church to be saved. So, according to SDA doctrine, if you don't tithe, you're not saved. I hate to say it but it is true- by their own standards none of them are saved.
The Lie of Investigative Judgment
Let's look at the Seventh-Day Adventist teaching of "Investigative Judgment." The following quote by Ellen G. White is from The Great Controversy...
"As in typical service there was a work of atonement at the close of the year, so before Christ's work for redemption of men is completed, there is a work of atonement for the removal of sin from the sanctuary. This is the service which began when the 2,300 days ended (according to Mrs. White this was in the year 1844! Evidently the nineteenth century was more wonderful than we had imagined!-Ed.). At that time, as foretold by Daniel the prophet, our high priest entered the most holy to perform the last division, of his solemn work to cleanse the sanctuary . . . in the new covenant the sins of the repentant are by faith placed upon Christ, and transferred, in fact, to the heavenly sanctuary . . . so the actual cleansing to cleanse the sanctuary. . . in the new covenant the sins of moval, or blotting out, of the sins which are there recorded. But, before this can be accomplished, there must be an examination of the books of record to determine who, through repentance of sin and faith in Christ, are entitled to the benefits of His atonement. The cleansing of the sanctuary therefore involves a work of investigation–a work of judgment. Those who followed in the light of the prophetic word saw that, instead of coming to earth at the termination of the 2300 days in 1844 (as Prophet William Miller had so dogmatically and widely proclaimed.—Ed.), Christ then entered in the most holy place of the heavenly, to perform the closing work of atonement preparatory to his coming."
It is heresy for anyone to claim that Christ's work of redemption wasn't completed at the mercyseat. There is NOTHING in the Scriptures teaching otherwise. There is nothing even remotely indicative of an "investigative judgment" (as they term it), where Christ completes His work of redemption. Such a doctrine is damnable heresy! SDAs cannot KNOW they are saved, because of their faulty understanding of Christ's work of redemption. SDAs believe that Jesus is still in the process of redeeming them. On the contrary, Hebrews 9:26 teaches, "...but now ONCE in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself." Jesus didn't need to go into the Holy of Holies repeatedly as did the Old Testament high priests; BUT, only once (Hebrews 9:25)! The very concept of an "Investigative Judgment" would require Jesus to enter into the Holy of Holies AT LEAST TWICE, the second time being in 1844. Clearly this is extremely unbiblical. The heresy of "Investigative Judgment" denies Christ's COMPLETED work of redemption.
From one of Ellen White's major works. While discussing the doctrine of Investigative Judgment, Mrs. White presents the following teaching about salvation: "The righteous dead will not be raised until after the judgment at which they are counted worthy of the resurrection of life. ... As the books of record are opened in the judgment, the lives of all who have believed on Jesus come in review before God. ... every name is mentioned, every case closely investigated. Names are accepted, names rejected. When any have sins remaining upon the books of record, unrepented of and unforgiven, their names will be blotted out of the book of life, and the record of their good deeds will be erased from the book of God's remembrance. ... all who would have their names retained in the book of life should now, in the few remaining days of their probation, afflict their souls before God by sorrow for sin and true repentance ... the work of preparation is an individual work. We are not saved in groups. The purity and devotion of one will not offset the want of these qualities in another" (Ellen G. White, The Great Controversy, pp. 425, 431).
Question and answer time found at “truth or fables”
Q: How long were you a member of the Seventh-day Adventist Church and what offices did you hold?
A: I was a member for 37 years, withdrawing my membership in December 1994. I served as Elder, Sabbath School Teacher, and Chairman of the Building Committee, Nominating Committee, Missionary Leader and many other offices.
"My Testimony".
Q: Is it OK to attend a Sunday church?
A: The Bible does not forbid attending a church on any day of the week. I would rather attend a Sunday church with just a few non-Biblical beliefs than a church with a false prophet that is their authority. I have found in EGW books over 50 Bible contradictions that the SDA Church regarded as truth. After leaving Adventism it took me two years to separate EGW Bible contradictions from biblical truth from my mind. This is called being White-Washed. "What is the Church".
Q: Why do you attack the Seventh-day Adventist Church and Ellen G. White?
A: I have Bible support for exposing false teachings and false prophets. The Apostles preached the gospel and also warned the church against false prophets and teachers.
Jesus (Mat 23:27 NIV) ""Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of dead men’s bones and everything unclean."
John published a warning to Christians in Revelation against false teaching of the Nicolaitans: (Rev 2:15 NIV) "Likewise you also have those who hold to the teaching of the Nicolaitans." (Rev 2:16 NIV) "Repent therefore! Otherwise, I will soon come to you and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth."
Peter published a letter warning against false prophets and false teachers among the Christians. (2 Pet 2:1 NIV) "But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves."
The Seventh-day Adventist Church and Ellen G. White speaks out against the Catholics, Mormons, Sunday keepers and others and do not consider this as a attack, but bringing out the truth. Should you condemn me when your own church does the same?
Q: Wouldn't your time be better served to building up and not tearing down the SDA Church and present the gospel?
A: Taking the gospel to the world is a command of Jesus Christ and is important for Christians to do what they can to accomplish this. I do this by by testifying to our non Christian friends that salvation is in Jesus Christ alone. Truth or Fables is going around the world and freeing those in EGW bondage which is no gospel at all. When the gospel is integrated with Ellen White's Bible contradictions, and we ignore this, then we are failing to present the true gospel to those that have a false gospel. Adventists believe EGW's health reform is part of the gospel and that Satan is their Scapegoat. See web site for these topics. Their Sanctuary and Investigative Judgment doctrines are not biblical which is a part of their gospel.
Q: How do I show my family and friends that Adventists are wrong?
A: You can take a topic or an Ellen G. White contradiction and have them explain how it can be correct according to the Bible? Truth will always stand on its own merits.
Q: Can reading Ellen G. White's books be wrong? I accepted Christ after reading Desire of Ages.
A: Many people have accepted Christ just from hearing the Word told them by missionaries and not having read the Bible. Many have accepted Christ from the witness they have read in an uninspired book, purchased in a bookstore. It is the Holy Spirit that convicts us to accept Christ. Reading Ellen G. White's books can be wrong if that person believes Ellen is inspired and she is their authority as taught by the SDA Church. The wrong comes in by accepting her writings as truth when they are filled with Bible contradictions. How do we learn the truth of the Bible? Do we learn it from uninspired books people write about the Bible or do we learn God's will by studying the Bible? Certainly we can gain insights from the research of Bible scholars. But we do not accept those insights unless we put them to the Bible test. Keep in mind Ellen did not write Desire of Ages by herself. She had a staff of college educated secretaries getting information from outside sources and filling gaps from what Ellen had them write. Ellen stole a large amount of material to put in her books. Then she claimed God gave her every word she needed as she wrote. She claimed the light she received was from the throne of God, but in reality it was from her 1200 plus library. Some was from fiction. See: http://www.truthorfables.com/Desire_of_Ages.htm
Q: How can I know for myself what the Bible teaches?
A: Get a modern translation of the Bible, as the KJV uses old English words and a concordance to help you locate Bible texts. Go to a Christian bookstore and purchase an "Inductive Bible Study." This will help you see what the Bible is conveying to you. Stay away from books by authors that try to teach you the Bible or Revelation, as there are a multitude of views held.
It is the goodness of God that leads people to repentance. God in His wonderful generous heart gives to the undeserving. This is what is commonly called “grace” but it isn’t commonly believed.
A Christian theology based on a God that curses or blesses His children isn't found in the new creation. There is plenty of room for the reaping of ones sowing, but to place that on God is an injustice.
We as Christians celebrate a place where no others have sat. This is a place where the curse of not performing perfectly isn’t held to our account. Now we as born from above are redeemed from the curse of the law because Christ Jesus has become a curse for us to free us from the laws of doing to be Holy, accepted, pure and righteous. Gal 3:13
28Come unto me, all ye that labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
29Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
We all are weary and heavy laden with the guilt of the law and that was its purpose-to bring us to Jesus the Christ. It cried out “do this do that” but we couldn’t. That’s why God gave the law –to show us the “we couldn’t” in us.
This is the whole of Jn 3:16 man needed to be changed and not be in the same condition of say a Job or Moses, of the old testament. So God in His infinite mercy and giving heart- gave his Son…
24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
But up to then God had to treat people according to His holiness apart from the shedding of this blood-for it was to come but had not been shed.
The old and new testaments are two different covenants and not just the same covenant separated by a white piece of paper. God had to treat the people of the old T. in a totally different manor for the sins of the world were not atoned for yet. Their sins were always before a Holy God.
16Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.
It was the thrown of judgment before the blood was shed, but for us it is a thrown of grace, (totally undeserved favor). It was in the thrown room called the ‘HOLY OF HOLIES” where the “ARK” of the covenant was and the blood had to be brought in there for the sins of the people. This is the ark that killed people when they touched it as in the old test times- because it was a place of judgment not of grace-YET!
But when Jesus went into the thrown room after shedding His blood and Mary tried to touch Jesus but He said “do not touch Me for I have not ascended to the Father. Well He was going to the Holy of Holies to put the blood on the real mercy seat the real place of propitiation in the heavens.
The place before the Father to apply the Holy Blood of this only begotton of the Father to the place of our redemption. It was accepted and now so are we IF we believe into Jesus.
Job didn’t have the promised Holy Spirit as we do. Job to our knowledge had no covenant as we now have a new testament that’s far above the old T. being one that was paid for in full by the blood of God’s Son.
Though we can learn a few things about life when we look at Job we learn more about our new position as we compare the two.
I will say that Gods “so called judgment” extended to a country or even to individuals is directly proportional to being a believer or not.- To make this clearer I can see that God isn’t judging people yet and people judge themselves by receiving or disregarding the atonement of Jesus for their sin. God has already placed judgment or we can say His wrath upon His Son for the sin of mankind. Now the world is dealing with whether they have placed their faith in this redemption. But God isn’t judging the world YET.
I have heard people say that the hurricanes that have come to America is a judgment of God on the sins of the country. This is silly misrepresentation of God and a fallacy. As if to say all people killed in these were an indication that not one of them was a Christian or should I say apart of the Family.
If we think God is in control of everything that goes on, we will make a miss-judgment against God and put on Him the sins that are in this world or that are happening in the world. When we look in the news papers do we accualy see God doing all the killings in these people? Do we see Him as the one who used a bank robber that shoots an innocent by stander to death and call it an omniscient, omnipresent and omnipotent work of God?
I am saying that if we don’t know our God as a Father who loves we can easily judge Him as the one who causes sicknesses, murders, rape, theft etc.
If we say God is the same yesterday today and forever we are right –BUT His dealing with mankind has changed…
People see a death or an evil thing happen and say “God took them or God will get glory out of this, or they will shirk it off on God by saying “that God makes all things work together for the good”. Thus placing all blame for everything thing on God.
4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
Yet we see that all don’t come to the truth (Jesus is the truth).
16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,
This scripture shows us so much-it is the word of God that will train us, correct us, instruct us.
Are we reading it and soaking it into our minds?
God as our Father never beats us with sicknesses and other people attacking us, or even the devil coming to test us.
We are tempted but that come from our desires when were drawn by our own lusts and that is the form of suffering-but Jesus was tempted in all things yet without sin. This was His suffering not sicknesses or having to carry about a physical chastening of God until it was time for His suffering for the sin of the world (which we will never have to go through) that was a one time thing.
24Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
---Believe on Jesus, believe on His blood shed for you. And you can put all condemnation away- for you have passed already from death unto life.
22 For the Father judges no one, but has committed all judgment to the Son, 23 that all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.
---God has put all judgment on His Son and we are free of His judgment- we are accepted in Him now.
17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. See the heart of God- always one of His love, mercy and grace.
24And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
We put this on by faith in His works.
11Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.
Even our fruits are of Him living in and through us.
3For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
There is two kinds of righteousness-1) that based on self, this is pure death. 2) Based on Jesus works of the cross, this is pure life.
21For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
